Posts by just n from bethel

60

What movie best decribes your sex life rite now??????

by karter in

gone in 60 secounds..

just n from bethel

Misery

35

How might one convince a Jehovah's Witness to read "Crisis of Conscience?"

by Nickolas in

i'm well into the book, can't put it down, it is just so fascinating and so utterly devastating to the credibility of the wtbts.

i suspect that any jehovah's witness who has a modicum of self respect and intelligence could not but finish the book a step or more on the path to emancipation from this awful, people destroying religion.. i really want my wife to read this book but i anticipate that she will refuse on the basis of it having been banned by the society as the worst kind of apostate literature.

i am genuinely saddened that she will not grant me the same kind of trust and respect she gives so lovingly to her watchtower masters and i will doubtless say this to her when she turns down my invitation.

just n from bethel

Tell them there is a condensed 32 page brochure edition in question and answer format.

29

Why can't you ask questions?

by ihadnoidea in

i know that some will disagree on this, and say you can ask questions.

yet, i ask you to honestly think what would happen if you openly started asking questions on jw doctrine or evolution.

likely you would be made to feel like i did below if you started asking these questions to other jws.. .

just n from bethel

the apostates are a relatively tiny group, in comparison to the population at large

If that's the case, the group of active JWs that think it's ok to visit known apostate websites, even as part of their ministry, is extremely tiny (hung-like-an-ant tiny). I can assure you that the WT literature, the COs, the talks, the elders, and especially the GB acting as reps for Jesus, all admonish and ultimately would punish any JW that made it known they were coming here to this site. If the attitutde toward that counsel was brazen, the punishment could even include being disfellowshipped. Every single JW I've spoken with on this matter in the last decade agrees. All the Watchtower literature makes it clear that it is against Jehovah for JWs to come here.

Having said that, glad you're here. Wish you knew how to converse more like the above instead of your usual copying and pasting half the bible and WT Cd in one post.

getting back on topic - I can tell you that I have now officially been told not to ask questions the JWs can't answer. I've officially been warned that if I question the WT or the teachings to any other JW, that I'll face a JC.

When I was told that, I said 'Thank You - Nothing has made me more sure that this is not the truth than being told not to question the religion of my birth, despite us telling every other non-JW to do that very thing. Had you told me it was ok to explore ideas, share dialogue, conduct my own research (vs. the WT doing it for me), I might have questioned a bit longer my decision to move forward from the org. Now, I know for sure, that this religion is just a man-made joke. So Thank you for making it clear.'

So here's another question: If I printed out a random sample of pages from this site and sent it to bethel - would they agree with you that "like the Aeropagus of Paul's time this is a public forum." ? I do agree with you, don't get me wrong. But I doubt you would ever see anyone of Christ's self-proclaimed reps admitting such, especially in comparison as a way to engage in the ministry. Thus - you well know you are disobeying the GB, but that's cool - good for you.

492

607 wrong using ONLY the bible (and some common sense)

by Witness My Fury in

if this has been covered before i apologise in advance.

using only the bible and a bit of common sense.. ok, here goes:.

do the "seventy years" count from jerusalems destruction or not?

just n from bethel

Whatever......DjEggNogg

LOL!!..Your most intelligent rebutal to date..

If your a 14 year old High School girl..

..................;-)...OUTLAW

That is hilarious. It's also DJ's shortest phrase he's ever used. I'd say he's making progress.

492

607 wrong using ONLY the bible (and some common sense)

by Witness My Fury in

if this has been covered before i apologise in advance.

using only the bible and a bit of common sense.. ok, here goes:.

do the "seventy years" count from jerusalems destruction or not?

just n from bethel

DJ said: I don't use any "WTS time-line," @AnnOMaly. The Bible's timeline happens to agree with what you are referring to as a "WTS time-line," but I have not used here, and do not now use, anyone else's timeline, but the Bible's own.

If any real JW can please stand up - and show me just one person - one single serious bible reader, who has read the Bible, never hearing of JWs or ever having read their literature, and came to the conclusion that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE, I'll return to the kingdom hall for a year and let DJ study with me.

DJ is lying like I've never seen a witness lie in all my years as an elder. I've seen some good ones too, but I've never met one JW or otherwise who believed in 607 without having had read rewritten history by the Watchtower. Thanks again for lying DJ, more lurking JWs leave everytime they read your blathering.

492

607 wrong using ONLY the bible (and some common sense)

by Witness My Fury in

if this has been covered before i apologise in advance.

using only the bible and a bit of common sense.. ok, here goes:.

do the "seventy years" count from jerusalems destruction or not?

just n from bethel

DJ hates Jehovah's Witnesses more than anyone on this forum. He said:

I am not like the many Jehovah's Witnesses that cannot defend their faith without making a trip to the home library they maintain of older WTS publications which might go back some 50, 60 years (or more!), which library serves as a crutch for them, or, nowadays, the Watchtower Library cdrom on which books in retirement like Let God Be True first published in 1946 and then revised in 1952 aren't included, and are no longer needed due to what our progressive understanding of the Bible is today, and which is likewise a crutch.

DJ - how can you be something you disdain so much?

If only my family and friends would be willing to disobey the watchtower like DJ and come to this site. I would show them some of DJs posts and they would be done with the religion faster than DJ can type his typical run-on sentence. It would be priceless to see the expressions on lurking JWs faces when they read DJ's posts. When they see how the most long-winded JW apologetic on the forum thinks his "brothers and sisters" are stupid and ignorant, they realize that this religion is not one of love but one of scorn and prideful egos, as DJ so clearly shows.

And then to top it off - he consistently ignores requests to back up his claims regarding this whole date thing which even the Watchtower hasn't touched on in 20+ years. He's been shown from the bible, from history, from JW literature, and truthful facts that 607 is wrong. The more he writes the more he shows how wrong he is and the more people get to see his foolishness, but, as a bonus, he throws in a boat-load of his own contempt for his so-called fellow Jehovah's Witnesses.

If you're a lurking Witness, reading this, all I can say is, with friends like DJ in your midst, who needs enemies?

I can promise you this, nobody on this forum thinks you're stupid and ignorant except your fellow JWs like DJ. Mislead? Sure, but we still will bend over backwards to keep real friendships with you in place. And we will never use a debate about doctrine and chronology to write long tangents about how stupid and mentally handicapped you are. Only your fellow witnesses do that.

So to all you JW lurkers, I know how it feels to finally realize how this religion teaches its constituents to view one another, as exemplified by DJ. But hopefully it won't make you sad, but make you take action - action that will free yourself of the idiocracy that DJ claims to represent. I can already tell by the new posters that register and post, people like DJ, are responsible for the many JWs that move on to real freedom, away from the mindset that has to re-write history to make their beliefs relevant. So for that DJ, we thank you.

492

607 wrong using ONLY the bible (and some common sense)

by Witness My Fury in

if this has been covered before i apologise in advance.

using only the bible and a bit of common sense.. ok, here goes:.

do the "seventy years" count from jerusalems destruction or not?

just n from bethel

40 Love Ann. Match, Set, Game: Ann.

492

607 wrong using ONLY the bible (and some common sense)

by Witness My Fury in

if this has been covered before i apologise in advance.

using only the bible and a bit of common sense.. ok, here goes:.

do the "seventy years" count from jerusalems destruction or not?

just n from bethel

DJ said: My hope is that by reading what things I have said to you (and others) in this thread that the lurkers here might see how you use the Bible and how I use it,

Unfortunately, DJ's longwinded posts reflect a complete lack of biblical knowledge. He can't even get the right Kings straight as Ann so easily schooled him. The end result is that, few if any lurkers read DJ's post in their entirety, because after just a few sentences they see how deluded he is. This is what they realize after about 5 minutes into one of his posts:

It's obvious nobody in his congregation listens to him or takes him seriously. He treats most other Jehovah's Witnesses with contempt, even calling them stupid here in public. He wonders aloud in his posts of the likelihood that most Jehovah's Witnesses in the organization will be killed at armageddon because he perceives them as not being as smart as himself. (Can you imagine, what it must be like for a Jehovah's Witness lurker to come on this forum and see the only one here attempting to defend JW positions is a guy that can't stand most of his fellow JWs?) They see an arrogant self-absorbed magalomaniac that puts himself out there to give the impression that he's an elder, when in fact - it is so glaringly manifest that he is a permanent pass-over (someone that the elders/CO will never make an elder, despite his deep desire and constant attempts and beggings to be one). Yep - he is THAT GUY. The guy that everybody pretty much ignores in the hall. The guy whose comments the WT/Bookstudy conductor tries to avoid at all costs.

He has proclaimed himself a genius because he went to the library and can quote from books as recent as the 1960's. Half of his diatribe, is fluff, trying to put words in other posters' comments. He tries to create straw man arguments about why other posters are here, spending sentence upon sentence about their supposed motives - when everyone knows why people are here: to discuss truthful JW related matter with freedom of speech that JWs are not permitted to have. Which brings us to the final point that every single lurker observes: DJ hypocritically and deliberately breaks the commands of Jesus' (supposed) appointed faithful and discreet slave by posting here and engaging in dialogue and association with disfellowshipped apostates.

Any lurker that is a JW sees his posts and then sees his lying excuses about how he thinks he has a pass from the GB to post here - realizes that this Witness is one of the absolute worst representatives they could ever hope to have here. If DJ was half-way honest, he would at least admit that the WT would consider it dangerous to associate and talk with disfellowshipped ones. An honest witness would admit, that if they would print out their posts and share them with their local elders, they would be warned to stop - and that if they didn't stop posting - they would eventually be disfellowshipped. Guaranteed!

So what happens at that point to lurkers - that is active/doubting JW lurkers - is they realize that not only does DJ present faulty logic, lies, and zero biblical evidence to support his claims, so the lurkers make their final leap off the fence. They realize that pages upon pages of what DJ spouts cannot overturn the truth as the Bible and historical evidence so clearly shows, in just a couple paragraphs. Thanks to DJs futile attempts to go on and on with no logical or reasoning skills, and zero biblical evidence, many many doubting lurkers up and leave the org for good. All thanks to you - DJ.

Yep - nobody can get people to drop their attachment to the Watchtower faster than DJ. He's the GB's worst nightmare. The elders are more worried about the damage someone like him does than anybody else on this forum. Rightly so - for DJ helps accomplish more exits from the org than anyone could possibly imagine. I'd guess about 10 people for every sentence of his. And about 50 people for every run-on sentence of his. If I could ever get my believing family members to disobey the GB and the WT and come here like DJ - his posts would be the first ones I'd show them. It would probably take half a day for them to drop the org completely after reading him.

For that - DJ - we thank you. Please never stop posting here. I realize your only friend is your computer that you sit and talk to all day long, but I promise - lurkers are listening to you. It just has the opposite effect of what you claim you want. It does exactly what the GB and WT fear though, and leads many many JWs away from their controlling org. Thank you.

91

GLOBAL FLOOD . . . Did it Really Happen?

by sizemik in

this question became an off-topic sidetrack in another thread.

i thought it might be worth some debate so posted here .

the debate is basically between mainstream geological understanding of the earth's history and "young earth creationism" in particular with how the evidence relates to the occurrence of a global flood in the recent past.. a couple of points from the yec website www.icr.org are raised as examples in order to kick things off .

just n from bethel

Prisoner: Sorry if I jumped the gun a bit with my comment. The whole flood thing was actually the first issue that got me thinking the WT could be wrong. I went from believing in a global flood to a localized one and was stuck there for years - waiting for Jah/WT to catch up with their new light. In the meantime, I would try to pretend in my mind that there were scientific methods and such for backing the localized flood idea, but the more I learned and studied up on real science - the more glaringly obvious it was that even a localized event described as it is in the bible, is just imppossible. I then went to pretneding that 'well - God must have had a miraculous hand in it' - but that makes zero sense. If god was going to miraculously intervene throughout the whole flood process - why bother with flood in the first place? So - sorry to be a bit brash in chiding you. I was chided a plenty in my long prideful ride to come to truth - unfortunately, I didn't visit sites like these, nor did I know an any former JWs to go over this with. It was all with neutral historical and scientific research - added to the lack of answers and the dishonest ones from the JWs and other literal-Bible apologetics. Feedback from professors, friends with masters degrees in fields like zoology, and colleagues with incredible intelligence, all put me to shame - but they did so without any agenda.

Anyway, glad you're learning - it sounds like you're going way faster than I did. Congrats.

91

GLOBAL FLOOD . . . Did it Really Happen?

by sizemik in

this question became an off-topic sidetrack in another thread.

i thought it might be worth some debate so posted here .

the debate is basically between mainstream geological understanding of the earth's history and "young earth creationism" in particular with how the evidence relates to the occurrence of a global flood in the recent past.. a couple of points from the yec website www.icr.org are raised as examples in order to kick things off .

just n from bethel

Prisoner said: After all the purpose of the flood was primarily wipe out mankind, who at that time according to the bible, spoke one language and lived in a small geograghical area. -

So you don't believe the bible when it said it the flood waters covered all the earth and killed 'every living breathing thing outside the ark' - but you do believe the bible's historical chronology of human history, and that all humans in existence today came from Noah and his 3 sons - just 4000+ years ago?

How do you explain the vast amount of evidence of people living in the Americas, Africa, Australia, and most other places in the world thousands of years prior to when the bible says the flood occured? FYI, I was where you were at one time, I really really wanted to believe the Bible and I put the whole flood thing aside as a local event, just like you. Then I researched, and studied history, and found that I was kidding myself to pretend that such a legendary event happened anything like the bible's account. I had to do something that went against my prideful presumptions of my bible-based background, I had to be corrected, and actually listen to feedback by professors and fellow colleagues that could provide countless amounts of evidence to back their claims. I had to do the one thing that you seem to refuse to do at this point: LEARN.

If you're not going to do it the way I did - that is, on my own without any help from any JW or former JW - only neutral, without agenda, scholarly research and feedback - then do what Farkel said. Read through the links he provided and the many other sources on this forum and elsewhere, and you'll find that not only are your claims lacking in credibility, but basking in them like you do keeps you ignorant.

There's just too much wrong with the account to be spelled out in one post - and your attempt to rationalize it as localized is still without the evidence. Especially since you still hold to a water vapor canopy idea with Boyle's law. I ran this by my buddy who has a PHd in chemistry from Duke - and uh - guess what? long story short, you're wrong. You need to quit spouting out nonsense without being able to back it up.

In the meantime, keep learning - or don't, but don't come on here acting like you know what you're talking about, because you may not learn, but you will get schooled.